Investing in the Many Dimensions of ‘Work’“I got interested in technology as a way of solving some of these major challenges I was seeing in my classroom. And that's not just education. There’s also all the other things that people need to actually have upward mobility in their lives.”
— Ashley Bittner

Today’s guest is Ashley Bittner, Founding Partner at Firework Ventures, Investing in human-centered Future of Work companies. Their current investments include: TRANSFR, Stride Funding, Hone, Learn In, Podium Education, Catch, BrainTrust, The Prelude Institute, and Edvo.

With first-hand experience as a teacher in the Bronx, a management consultant, and a political appointee in the Obama Administration, Ashley brings a thoroughly insightful learnings about the Future of Work.

In this interview, Ashley talks about the kind of innovations needed to meet the rapidly evolving needs of our workforce. She also touches on important matters such as diversity, upward mobility, and the role policy plays in driving socioeconomic transformation.

“Bridgette (Founding Partner) and I focus a lot on how we think or how we build a platform that has really values diversity of thought, different experiences.”
— Ashley Bittner

Highlights

Understanding the gaps in the education system.
The complex vectors of upward mobility.
What does policy have to do with startups in the ‘Future of Work?’
What does being human-centered mean when investing in venture capital?
Investing (early) in the strength of the GP partnership.

Transcript

Ashley Bittner 0:29

Thank you guys for having me today. Really appreciate it. My name is Ashley Bittner. I'm a founding partner at Firework Ventures Fund I, co-founded with Bridgette Lau. So, we lead series A investments in the future of work. And we take a human centric approach to investing. So we invest in tech companies that are supporting people through the massive transition the economy is undergoing.

So, for example, we've led investments or an investment in a company that provides hands on training around middle skills, jobs, those are jobs like manufacturing automotive, and then we've also another spectrum invested in companies are a company that is helping major fortune 500 Enterprises better manage their workforce and upskill them into the roles that are going to have more trajectory for them.

So, the only thing I mentioned is that our thesis is also reflected in how we operate as a fund. So, we take this kind of human centered approach to our investing. So we really believe in transparent communication with our founders creating a good process for them. And we want those founders to get the support they need to help scale their companies. That can be things like coaching, stuff like that.

And then Bridgette, I also take that same approach to our partnership. So we can build a thriving, sustainable partnership that helps our founders. And so our goal is to become the category defining fund in this in the future of work, and to build a venture fund that's really focused or really known for the strength of its partnership.

Jon Low 1:50

Thank you, Ashley. Ashley, you didn't start out in venture straight after college. So you know, what was your interesting journey to today? You know, how did you get into venture and what kept you going? And, you know, even and then kind of paint the picture of like, what did you see that really inspired you to co-create with Bridgette?

Ashley Bittner 2:19

Sure. So, to your point, Jon, when I was in college, I had no idea what venture was, I had no intention of going towards the business. But I was really interested in thinking about how you could affect change at scale. And so my original kind of work was actually much more on policy.

In my coming out of college, I actually worked through Teach for America, I taught in the Bronx to get that kind of really on the ground experience. And it was there actually, that I got interested in technology as a way of solving some of these major challenges I was seeing in my classroom. And that's not just education. That's also all the other things that people need to actually have upward mobility in their lives. And that actually underlies a lot of the Firework thesis that you know, education is really important, but it's not enough if you think about what actually drives that kind of change.

So, from Teach for America, it's funny because my school, I taught in the Bronx, like I mentioned, five story walk up, no air conditioning, no tech. But what I saw though, was it was really challenging to meet all the needs that I saw there without any support from technology.

So, I actually ended up going to business school, after teaching, went to business school and policy school, went to Wharton, and I went to Harvard. And while I was there, I interned at a venture fund that was led by a man named Ted Mitchell. And I got hooked on venture then I also interned with a startup and just fell in love with it and wanted to do that longer term.

Because you know, there's no like one path into Venture. And so, coming out of business school, I worked for BCG, kind of got that experience. I was actually pulled into the Obama Administration, when I was at BCG. So, I had Ted became the undersecretary of the department of education at the time, I got appointed to work for the Obama administration. And I went to work with Ted on the innovation agenda.

From the department's point of view, I was leaving. You know, Ted asked me what I was going to do when I grew up. And he said that I should go back to venture. And he introduced me to Troy Patterson, who had just launched a new fund. And about a month later I was living in San Francisco and never expected to be out here but kind of a confluence of different opportunities and people over time kind of brought me up to the Bay.

Yeah, so thus far, I really loved working in venture, especially at the early stages. And then to your question around launching Firework. So, from my investing experience, my previous world I saw a market opportunity around future work that I was really excited about. It also was really focused, as I mentioned in the early stages where I think this kind of category expertise really matters. A lot of the policy I was talking about before really influences the way that we think about what our market opportunities and how that's going to play out over time. And so those two pieces combined with my view of what kind of culture I'd want to work in long term inspired me to work with Bridgette and to build Firework and happy to answer any more questions about that.

Jon Low 5:34

Yeah, I agree, that's really helpful. It sounds like you have quite a unique take, you and Bridgette have a unique take on upward mobility and the future of work because the future of work is probably a hashtag, right? That implicit meaning to ecosystem would love for you to unpack a bit about your unique perspectives on you know, upward mobility, future of work and, you know, kind of pulling together your experience in, in policy and understanding what it takes to make systemic change, and to make that change sustainable as well.

Ashley Bittner 6:15

So, as I mentioned, in the beginning, we think about future work to your point, like everyone's LinkedIn, or Twitter, everyone's going up with future work marketing ops right now, largely a lot of the trends that can underlie our thesis that are driving all the conversation now.

Bridgette and I have seen coming and we invested in companies kind of, we call the first wave of this from our previous world. And those trends have just really been accelerated by COVID. Those are things like remote distributed work, online training, stuff like that. So we think about this human centered approach. And so we are thinking about what is actually helping people in the transition of the economy, so less about things like robotics, or AI and more about how people will adapt and be able to thrive, given the pace of change that's driven by advancements in technology.

So, we tend to invest in about these four kinds of verticals. One is new models of work, we invest in a company called BrainTrust, and that categories a user-owned freelancer marketplace, to one co-worker mobility, that's about how people are changing and finding new occupations, given the changes in the economy.

So, there's research that, excuse me, suggests that, you know, prior to COVID, that as much as a third of the US workforce, we need to change jobs by 2030. And we can't just hire and fire away out of those needs. So, how do enterprises actually better manage their existing workforces, and we invested in a company called learn in that category.

We've also thought about what support do people need outside of work outside of their job? I should say, to really thrive, given all these changes, especially given the nature of the employer, employee relationships really changing, you don't necessarily get all the benefits you might have in the past from your employer.

So, within that category, we've invested in a company called Catch that provides portable benefits for the alternate workforce. And then finally, we also think about what skills do people need to thrive in this new economy. So we believe the future of work is a blend of uniquely human skills, leadership, communication, creativity, collaboration— things that at least right now we don't think will get automated away in the short term and in demand technical and digital skills that people can grow over time. And so within that category we've invested in led around a company, it's not announced yet, but that helps with upskilling, middle skilled roles.

So, that could be everything from like automotive to green tech, specifically around rural and Middle America. And so again, if you think about our thesis relative to other funds that are kind of focused on this space, it really is thinking about, how do people thrive, given all these changes? And what are the full sets of supports and services, not just education, that people need to be able to achieve that upward mobility?

Jon Low 8:59

Yeah, that really does. It really does. And you know, it's fascinating. Speaking of the game, you are a venture fund. And obviously, you have an obligation or duty to generate returns for your, for your LPs and being a steward of capital. But as a result of having this different approach to the future of work and upward mobility, what economic opportunity, do you see a fund can secure that? Perhaps someone who has a less multi-dimensional take on future work would miss.

Ashley Bittner 9:35

I think we ought to see, really don't look for the whitespace that we think are these outsized market opportunities? For example, one of the companies that I just mentioned, focuses many of the students and customers that are being served by it, like one of their biggest customers Alabama, right in Texas. Now.

There's other places that might be traditionally underserved by the venture community, broadly speaking. As a generalization, but you know, we're looking for opportunities that we believe are these massive market opportunities that will drive those kind of financial returns, you're talking about Jon, but also, some other organizations might not have the kind of category expertise in networks that allow them access to those type of those type of investments.

And, you know, one of the things that we really focus on too, and I kind of alluded to this in the beginning is, because we're really focused in this category, we have a perspective on these various verticals, we're investing, we're actively looking for certain types of companies where we think there are those opportunities, rather than just kind of reacting to what's coming in.

And we're building as a result, building relationships with entrepreneurs over time, adding value along the way, and in many of the cases that we've led rounds, we've preempted those rounds, and then created, you know, really, you know, quick, and a process that allows us to to continuously focus on what's most important to them with building the business, while also getting the partner they want in their next round. And so we take pride also in being able to be in addition to preamps, and to be able to create those experiences for CEOs and build relationships with them, and help them to kind of stay focused on what's most important.

Jon Low 11:21

Oh, thank you. And, you know, it's fascinating, you say you also have an active approach to outreaching and building relationships with these entrepreneurs. Um, you know, what do you find, you get to discover about the entrepreneur, that perhaps a more passive investment strategy and inbound requests, right, might not give you the time to do the diligence you need on the founder, co founding team?

Ashley Bittner 11:48

Yeah, in many cases, um, we've known the CEO for years before we're investing, I'm actually one of them. One of our CEOs, I was her graduate, I was a TA for her graduate school, another one. But it's not how we source it's just students that we've taught, but it's funny, you know, seven, eight years later, kind of thing.

But we tend to, as you build a relationship over time, see how they're executing against their plan, obviously, but you start to see what are the areas that they could use specific support around as they're building their business. And so one of the things I also mentioned is that we help our co-founders the extent they want it, to get connected with experts that will help build the business, but also coaches, other folks who can help them as individuals thrive as they're scaling. And so it's kind of understanding we have like a menu, I would say, of support we have for different folks and understanding what's the right combination, to support the CEO, as they're going through this next part of the business, or the next phase of the business, I should say?

That I think it's around really understanding them as individuals, their goals, and a lot of times you get to know their families. And one case, when the CEOs, I went to college with his wife. So you really get to know people as individuals, as well as how they run their business. And I think you only kind of see that over time. In some cases, this is the second time we've worked with a CEO, I won that one that we lead that we're on the board of now, I observed on his previous board, where he's chairman of that company.

So, you know, we've actually worked with them in the past. And so we take that approach to a really strong conviction and the CEO. So that tends to be less of the focus of the diligence. And you can have one, it's really about is this the right time to use this capital versus like, do I believe in this person, because we already have conviction there. So, it's much more around like the plan and what they need and the capital needs of the business? Versus like, do I believe in this person when you're doing that t kind of process? And I have ticked off around the diligence on the founder and the team before you get enough conversations, and more of it, but I think you don't think going in with that perspective that you have conviction there.

Jon Low 13:54

Yeah, wow, that's, um, that's a big, that's a big component. And thank you, thanks. Um, and you know, curious as well, because, you know, you're looking when you look at the future of work and upward mobility and looking for, you know, these category defining companies. I mean, in your experience, you know, a lot of category defining companies are easy to evaluate using precedence.

And so, you know, when you get to the stage where there is a market opportunity, and the right founder is kind of navigating through that complexity, with no previously laid track— how do you evaluate those companies? Or how do you identify them enough to want to dig deeper in a way that maybe someone who's relying too much on history?

Ashley Bittner 15:00

Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think part of the way that we at least think about that is a company like Lean In is a good example. So, this is the company I mentioned, that was founded by David Blake. He is the chairman of Degreed. And then he left to start new companies. And again, he's still Chairman there.

But um, when we came together to preempt that, this was actually a seed, we primarily do series A. But Bridgette and I had seen because of the kind of time we've spent in this category, like 1000s of companies kind of specifically in around this category. And haps, we have that piece of it, we have the research focus that we do. And so really looking to see what we believe are the macro trends and the policy implications that are driving the category. And so with learning what it does is it's a company that's helping, as I mentioned, enterprises better manage their existing workforce.

So, some of the trends I talked about before I was looking for stuff that's going to help address this problem, right. So there's a staff at the World Economic Forum put out that's like 54% of people need significant rescaling or upskilling by 2022, like, two years, not even two years. And we don't we can't do that from the traditional education system that exists today.

So, one of our perspectives is that the employer is now becoming a different unit of delivery. And there's a new social contract that's starting to emerge between employers and employees, we can't hire and fire our way out of this problem.

There's, the traditional education system is not, on average, putting people into the workforce prepared for the jobs they are going to do. So we have to think about how we address this problem. There's other stats like 70% of CEOs say they have huge skills gaps in their companies right. And so we can't address this incrementally. And so we had been looking for something that was like, how are we going to actually facilitate this kind of upscaling at scale?

And how's it going to come from the employers and most employers also say, they're not equipped to kind of do this now, with their in house capabilities, like 16%? Say they are from a McKinsey study. So we had all these stats, right are kind of underlying how we're thinking about this category. And we sat down with David to talk about this idea. This is like on a napkin in a coffee shop type of thing. And, you know, we were very much like, yes, let's go do this together.

We're going to preempt this round and work on this with you, because we see the confluence of all the research that we've seen, we believe this matters, the policy around this category, around tuition benefits and things, we see opportunity there to use those in a better way.

Bridgette from her experience investing in Guild, me from my work at Degreed. And this is the team we have conviction in. So David, you know, started there and had two other people from Degreed with him. And then the other woman who became his CEO, actually, even to save it to the previous year, knew her really well. So we had conviction in that whitespace. Like, there's no one doing this! We had conviction in his team. And we also had been looking for something that was addressing this specific problem.

And so to your point about founders, where there's no precedent, it's a combination of those, I think three things for us is understanding what's driving in our view the market number two, what's the real problem? And like, what are the trends around that? But how do we see that historically? And what's the future of that? For us, we specifically think about what are the policy implications around that. And then we think about, are these the right people? Do we have conviction in their ability to go after this particular untangled problem. And with David's case, you know, we did it both on him for years. And I have like, actually directly worked on his previous board. He's a kind of future work expert author and, you know, works with a number of the larger companies around these issues. And that's what gave us conviction to, you know, kind of go after that, as a category defining company. Does that make sense?

Jon Low 19:01

That makes absolute sense. Thanks for sharing all this insight. I mean, it was very deep into, you know, the psychology of your fund, and it's, but we're gonna go deeper, but we're gonna take a bit of a pivot, like to Brigette and you. You know, you two came together and started Firework Ventures. Can you tell us a bit about your kind of GP duo choreography? You know, you know, we originally wanted both on the show...

Ashley Bittner 19:55

I appreciate the question. So, I'll kind of step back and how we kind of came together. So I know Bridgette, she's one of the first people I met when I moved out to San Francisco to start investing.

So, I reached out to her really early in my career because she had led investments, and a few companies that I was really excited about. So at that time, she had done the series A previously on the seed for Guild eEducation and BetterUp, which are two companies now that we that really influenced the way we think about this category. And that was I had the kind of seeds of this when I started investing in originally started investing, but I was really excited about those types of companies as opportunities. And those have gone on to becoming a billion dollar companies that we really believe to find the space and influence our thinking about our thesis.

So, I reached out to her around to meet her because she had done these investments. And also because she was a female GP leading investments in human capital. At that time, she was a GP at Social Capital. And I really admired and wanted to build my network among female VCs. I at the time worked at an all male team who was great, but I was looking to still build that as well. And so we started meeting regularly and sharing deals, we actually observed on our board together, we did co-investments across our funds. And over time, it became really clear to us that we had a shared view of this market opportunity which has become Firework. Also a focus the same kind of perspective on stage.

So, one of our beliefs is that the category expertise really matters in the early stages, we're like, we're joining boards, or working closely with founders. And we think that that's the stage where we can be of most value as people who have specialized networks in the space before, they're just kind of in growth arounds. And the other piece that was really, I think, is core to our partnership is that we have a similar view, as I mentioned, on kind of culture and venture, and how we think about our own professional and personal growth.

And so in terms of culture, Bridgette and I focus a lot on how we think or how we build a platform that has really values diversity of thought, different experiences. I love what Bridget and I, we both obviously mentioned investing for a number of years, but we have complementary backgrounds outside of that, that really helped us in terms of our diligence sourcing post investments, and all that, it's how we're looking to build out our team is to really be a platform where folks can have that, like diversity that's really valued.

The other pieces, as I mentioned, focus on professional and personal growth. People are so people when they go to work, they have challenges that they need to kind of work through and areas for growth. You know, we, as I mentioned, think about this with our CEOs in terms of getting them access to coaches and other supports that help them thrive as individuals and CEOs and to create the type of cultures we want them to scale over time.

We also do that as a team, we view this as not something that's fixing a problem is supercharging. The strength of your team is by creating that really transparent, open communication and culture that we believe is really important in a thriving venture partnership. As you both know, one of the questions that LPs are most focused on in new funds is what's the strength of the partnership. And we invested really early in that for ourselves. And for the teams around us, we believe it's actually de-risking our portfolio by getting them the support to address any challenge they have internally head on, right. And we believe in that for us from the beginning, where it's around, creating an even stronger partnership, and preventing them from being any kind of unnecessary challenges in the future.

The other piece I just mentioned, strength of partnership. So Bridget and I, you know, with the Shelter in Place Order happened. Obviously we're in these unprecedented times, we joke we actually decided to shelter in place together so we can continue investing to build the firm, being really active at investing during this time. And part of that's because we already we already had that relationship beginning before this happened, but then took this as an opportunity to continue to like really strengthen partnership work together continue building the firm, even through this kind of, you know, challenging time.

So in terms of our partnership, I'd say it's built on, again that like a shared view of the market opportunity, shared focus on stage, shared view of culture for our team and shared view of how we want to support founders. And we believe that's a reflection again of our thesis of what the future of work is. We believe the future of work does think about people holistically and provides them with those supports and services they need to thrive from an investment Category opportunity. And then we also mirror that in our work and with our founders. That answer your question?

Jon Low 25:08

Very much. You know, I know we're heading up on time, but, I mean, we could have you speak so much longer on this topic. And but, um, you know, I'm going to ask an embarrassing question, you know, if future LPs who are aligned with the space of the mission of what firework are doing, if they're watching this video in the future, and you and you didn't have to explain, convince or get through any preconceived notions, what would you really want them to understand about you and Bridgette and Firework Ventures, truly? What message would you want them to get, undistorted, clear as day?

Ashley Bittner 25:57

A good question. It's a couple of points. I'd say the future of work is an emerging market opportunity that's really big. And what we were excited about it is that it cuts across so many different verticals. It cuts across human resources, financial services, health and education.

And we believe it takes a new perspective and new category expertise to go win in that market. One comment on that, as folks will talk about generalists getting excited about the space. And that's we think that's great, actually just showing more excitement around the category. But we do believe that the best entrepreneurs in this category will still pick people who have that specific expertise to help them build their business.

So, one is that expected this is a new category that requires expertise. Two, research shows us and we hope to prove it is that diversity of thought improves your returns. And that these types of supports and services that we're providing for interactions, our partnership, and for our CEOs, we also believe that that will drive returns and kind of change.

We believe that we can change the way that it's a nebulous thing to say but doing business differently and venture can actually drive outsized returns, but put it that way. I think those are the two main takeaways of how we think about the firm is both a market opportunity.